Tough Love with John Lynch
We sat down at a cafe in Tujunga for some hot chocolate and cookies with John Lynch, former Head of Production at Paramount TV Studios and Amazon Studios.
Viewfinder: Could you give us the spark notes on how you got to where you are today?
John Lynch: I went to Cal State LA and loved my experience at the college. It was so much fun. I was in student government, the school mascot, and I just said yes to everything!
I was on an athletic scholarship, so it was really fun to go to college, but I realized Cal State LA really opened my eyes that everything was possible. Now– a lot of people don't think that's a great university. It's not Harvard– I can't even get in the fucking gift shop at those places with my grades. But it opened my eyes to the reality that shit's going to happen if you show up every day. After that, I went and I worked for EF Hutton on Wall Street, and I was there for two years. It wasn't for me. I'm not a Wall Street guy.
I'd done some running, being a PA on a couple things, nothing major. I had a brother who worked in the business and we ended up working together for several years doing a lot of kid shows: Kids Incorporated, The Secret World of Alex Mack. It was eye opening to see what was capable but I also realized then that 90% of the work I'm going to do, I'm not going to get paid for and that 10% better cover that time that you've done on that.
So my brother and I split up because I didn't want to do kid shows anymore. I wanted to do comedy. I worked with Norm McDonald, Andy Dick, I worked with the Jackass guys and my favorite Tom Lennon and Ben Grant from Reno 911. It was really fun because you worked with people who had different takes on everything and not one was right or wrong. I learned a lot during that time.
Fast forward some time later and I interviewed and got the job with Amazon, and set up their production. We pause for a cookie break. Each of us taking a bite out of our chocolate chip cookies.
VF: Good cookie.
JL: It is, dammit. I shouldn’t be eating this shit.
Anyways, they let me do a lot of stuff since we were small. It was really, incredibly fun. I'd say the first five years at Amazon was the most fun I had in my career.
VF: You’ve mentioned that in previous interviews. Is it because no one knew what they were doing?
JL: I had built two small production companies. Always sounds more impressive than it really is. But when we did Amazon, I used all the same stuff we did for the small companies! The difference was, I had this massive bank behind me, but I wasn't worried about paying everybody.
You go to a place like Amazon, which is an incredibly run company for all these different divisions. Entertainment is a little different because it's an irrational business compared to other businesses. You're not always doing what's the best financial or even creative ideas. Someone who's in power decides they want to do something a certain way and it gets done that way. But that's like any art form.
Whoever's in charge of the art gets to do what they want. Usually, if I was doing shows, I would always want whoever my creative head is on it to get their vision as much as possible. That's the reason why it got sold. That's why people want to be a part of it. The creative part of our business is so important because no one's going to sit and watch something that sucks. So you have to be open that it's not a rational business in the thought process.
These companies are smart, these people are smart, but sometimes a lot of it's luck too. Who's to say when you do a show if it's going to be good or bad. It could be the best script in the world and you might've executed it wrong or you might've executed it perfectly, but no one liked it.
VF: Switching gears here. If you were to look yourself up on Google/Linkedin it says you’re an EVP or Head of Production at Amazon Studios and Paramount+. What does an EVP or a Head of Production do?
JL: If I knew I'd still be there!
I’m realizing it's different for everyone and how they handle it. My goal was to make sure our shows are running as best as possible within the parameters that I'm given. Money, time, whatever. And then, staying on top of it to know when there's going to be mistakes. You're going to have overages, you're going to have change, you're going to have underages– it's never a perfect thing. Your budget, your schedule, your script, they're roadmaps and they change a little bit while you're making it.
JL: Sometimes you get a great script, but for some reason something doesn't work when you shoot it, you might adjust it. Well, there's a cost of money to that. There's a cost of time to that. Is it worth making that change? If it's a feature film, it's always worth it because you always say, “well, I'll get a bigger box office!” If it's a television show, and it was like traditional media, well, there's only so much we're getting for our commercial time, so it's not worth it. I'm simplifying this. I'm sure there's a million guys out there who are going to disagree with everything I'm saying– fuck 'em. But it’s because we all look at these things differently.
VF: The transparency is appreciated. I feel like there's such a kind of secrecy with how these big productions get made.
JL: Well, you got to remember– it's not even secrecy. We're all afraid that you're going to say something stupid and never get a job again. To me, a lot of it is fear. I mean, no matter how good you are or bad you are, you're still trying to get work all the time and that's what this business is like and I imagine that's what every industry's like. Like I said, “everyone’s chair is rented.” If I worked at Microsoft when I was the head of Microsoft, I'm like, fuck up. They're going to throw me out and rightfully so.
You just do the best you can, figure stuff out, and talk to experts. My experience in business has been “A Managers”– really good managers hire “A People”. “B Managers” who are insecure hire “C People” because they don't want to be challenged.
But to me it's like that's the biggest problem we have. [The mindset of] I want to make sure everybody kowtows to me, so I can't hire anyone smarter than me. When the greatest thing is to hire someone smarter than you, so they do their job. Hire people that have skills that you don't have! It's very weird.
VF: You’ve mentioned in previous interviews that you have this crazy, almost Spartan-like schedule. You're waking up at 4:15AM. You're in the pool or surfing an hour after that. Then, you're at work by 6:30AM.
JL: Not surfing so much these last couple of years. I really suck as I get older.
VF: Where do you like to surf?
JL: On school days, I go to Santa Monica or El Porto. But these last two years I've not been surfing that much at all just because I’m not moving the way I used to! I'm too old to fucking shortboard. My son gets there and I'm like, “fuck you little bastard. I taught you how to surf!”
VF: Yeah, there's just like 6-year-old groms that were just born in the water.
JL: The places I go to, a lot of old guys go out or guys who suck because it's just I don't want to fight for it. And when the waves get over six feet, I'm on the beach. I'm not going to hurt myself anymore.
VF: I’m guessing you didn’t surf a lot this winter then? We’ve had a lot of big winter swells.
JL: I didn't even want to go down the beach. I was terrified.
But to get back to your point, I've always woke up early. Even in college or my job, I'd be in the office early. But I'd have three hours where I got 90% of my work done and then the rest is meetings and trying to figure out how to do things better.
But also when I was working on shows and stuff, I usually get in before everybody and leave after everybody. Partly it was like, “I got nowhere to go. I got nothing going on.” But, for the most part, it’s because I believe that our business is supposed to be fun! So working and coming in for extra time– I never found it to be hard. I really enjoyed working. I felt lucky that I really enjoyed it. I don't want it to stop.
VF: Yeah. When are you going to stop?
JL: When my fucking heart stops! I don't know because I'm talking to my friends who have all retired and they want to hang themselves. They're bored out of their fucking minds! I don't think I'll work at the rate I was working before because I'm fortunate enough I don't have to.
I just spend time [on these things] because it's fun or a friend of mine wants some help with something. I love that. But as far as building a company from scratch, again, I don't think I'm going to be doing that again. Although, that is the most fun.
VF: Never say never! Okay, you’ve also mentioned before that you always wore a collared shirt as a runner to stand out.
JL: It's the dorkiest thing I ever did, but I wore it because everybody else wore T-shirts. “Get the kid with the collar to take care of that.” I was like, “yes, I'm standing out!” No one knew my name. The funniest thing is you're so scared all the time.
VF: What are things people can do to stand out?
JL: Don’t fuck up. But seriously, you get in early and when someone has something they want done, say, “I'll do it”. My opinion is, you want to be a great producer? You better be a great runner. You've got to work your way up. Now obviously there's people who don't work their way up and just step in and do it, but since I was on the production side, we had to know our craft and it really helped to work my way up that way.
And when you're on set, don't ask a million questions. Pick your time when you can because you don't want to be that annoying guy who's asking questions all time. I got my own fucking job to do. I don't need to babysit you and so use your head! I'm just trying to learn and they're trying to do their job. It's not like you're at home and your mom thinks you're great. You better fucking figure a way to do this. And it's different for everyone.
JL: They're still not an ass in town I wouldn't kiss. It's just like you don't know what's going to happen. Someone who's in charge of being very powerful today, disappears tomorrow. In our industry, it's fleeting. I mean, if you think about it, think of all the actors you watched in sitcoms in the nineties or even early two thousands. Maybe one or two of the leads are still doing something. But most of the cast, you never see 'em again. It's horrible. Acting is the greatest job in the world and the worst career because you're constantly looking for work. But being an actor, I imagine it must be a really wonderful feeling.
VF: Have any recommendations for places to live for someone who’s trying to make the move to LA and wants to work in the film and television industry? Asking for a friend…
JL: Anywhere you can live that you can make it work. LA is such a tough place because if you bought a house 10 years ago, any rent for a place is going to be more than your house mortgage, so it's a very expensive place, especially for people starting off.
VF: Have you witnessed any nepotism during your career?
JL: Oh, it's funny. I've seen nepotism. I've seen a lot less of it in the last 10 years than I did when I started off. I've only dealt with one bad nepotism case. I was working on a show and I fired a guy, it turned out to be one of the studio execs was his dad. My stupidity was not to know the players. I just had it with a guy and then I got fired right away. It was a great lesson.
But I haven't really seen it that much as people talk about it, I do think there is an advantage to it though. I mean if you’re the son or daughter of a powerful person in the industry, they can get you meetings, but they're not your career. You still have to do the work. Because let's face it– there's a lot of major actors out there who have kids and the kids don't make it as actors. And no shame on that. It's just a fucking hard business. You can't make the audience love you.
VF: So you might get in the door, but it takes real talent to stay in.
JL: …Or luck. It takes both! I do think most people I've seen in the industry– most of 'em do have talent, so luck plays a bigger part of whether you're getting work or not. You don't last several years without some talent, very few. I mean, it's easy to say, “well, that person sucks and this person is good.” No, you don't like them, but someone does! I used to always hear people say “Big Bang’s not funny.” Well, apparently the whole world thinks it is.
VF: It's someone’s favorite show.
JL: You hear these things where people would put stuff down. It's like, “well, that's just your opinion.” I think everyone has a creative sense to them. I don't think everyone's commercial. And that's a big difference.
VF: What's something that someone can do who's fresh out of film school?
JL: I think it's one of the hardest things to do. I think especially if you want to be a writer. It's even harder because getting in a writer's room even assistant or a PA is brutal because it's a very coveted position and if you're a writer [you know] people that you're going to want to put in, so those are really hard.
Getting a job as a PA and stuff like that, a lot of it's luck, but you have to keep applying. You have to see what jobs are out there and you have to adjust your resume to what you're applying for and you’ve got to tell people, “this is the job I wanted every day of my life.” Because when you say, oh, I just want to do this for now, but I'm going to go into this area, it's like you just cut yourself out of a job.
I’ve interviewed hundreds of people over the year and been involved in hiring hundreds of people over the years and it's always amazing when someone says, “well, this is okay for now, but I really want to, I'm thinking, and then I got a kid who this is what he's dying to do.” It's amazing that there's a lack of awareness of what you're saying.
VF: It’s kind of refreshing. Your graduate class at CSUN scared the crap out of me.
JL: Did it?
VF: Yeah.
JL: I wanted you to be aware it’s gonna be really hard.
VF: It's tough love.
VF: As I look at my old writing, I'm like, “wow, this is awful.” But if I look at it from someone who's reading my script or audience members watching it, I start to think “what's the point of this? Let's cut this out.”
JL: That's a big thing! I've always said this when we did shows, “I don't understand why this is important?” [and the response is] “Oh, because this happened to me and it's a really important part of the story!” It means nothing. It doesn't move the story either. You rewrite this so it moves the story. We're not in the business for you.
It's like we got to do something that we get an audience for, and I don't think it's disrespectful to ask for that change. I remember reading the book on Pixar and I was like, that was amazing. Everyone rips your script apart and it's not a personal thing. It's like, we need this thing to be good.
[People say], “But this is my baby!”
But I’m like, “yeah, well some of my kids aren't as great as I wish they were. Well, this is our baby.”
It's supposed to be a collaborative business, which is great because we all have different takes on things and I feel it's okay to ask for anything you want, but you've got to be ready to defend it and if you lose out, you’ve got to be able to work with it. You can't just pout.
I've seen some people walk off. If you have power, you can do that, but most of us don't because even if you're very successful, there's a very small percentage that have that kind of power. There's not a lot of Spielbergs out there. The guy’s incredibly gifted, hardworking, and I think brilliant. I mean, that's my opinion. He's in the world of Hitchcock, all those guys. To me it's like they've changed the business. There's very few people that do that.
VF: You’ve said, “nobody is born anything. You just have to learn it.” What's one thing that you've had to really work on?
JL: I had to learn to keep my mouth shut and I'm not good at it. Well, by the way, that sounds really arrogant, but it's true. We create who we are and you have to be aware of it. That's another thing– you really need to know what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are.
I know I could never direct or write or edit. I don't have the patience, the talent or the creativity. So I found an area of the business that I could find where I thought, “Okay, I'm decent at this.” You have to be aware.
VF: What's been your favorite/most memorable production or project you've worked on?
JL: There's a show I did called The Hollowmen. We did for Comedy Central with these four boys from England and Monty Python-esque. I really loved it. It was really fun for me.
At Amazon, my favorite show we did there, I love Bosch and The Patriot, I liked those shows. The stuff that's award acclaiming wasn't my favorite stuff. I thought it was great, but it wasn't my cup of tea, which by the way, if I ran my own network, it'd be Family Guy 24 hours a day. So take that with a grain of salt. I watch it to death. I love it.
VF: Your top three shows? They can't be Family Guy or American Dad. And your top three movies that aren't Mean Streets, Duel, or Jaws.
JL: I got to tell you, Everything Everywhere All At Once to Me was the last truly creative movie I'd seen. I thought it was fantastic. It was just bizarre. Yeah, I just watched The Brother Sun and I loved it because it's ridiculous and it's fun and Michelle Yeoh’s in it and I've loved her since Super Cop. My favorite movie, probably of all time, it's an odd story, is Path of Glory with Kirk Douglas and directed by Stanley Kubick in the fifties. To me, it's a brilliant movie. Shows? I loved Patriot from Amazon.
VF: Alright, one more question–
JL: Once, in college! I hated it!! Haha.
VF: Thoughts on film school? Do you think it's necessary?
JL: Here's how I feel about film school. Is it necessary? Well, is college necessary? It's going to be different for every person there is. I know a lot of people didn't go to school. My feeling on film school was there's a lot of good you can get out of it. But a lot of it is if you're using the equipment– most of that becomes obsolete by the time you're coming out of school. If you're writing and stuff, I think it's probably very helpful. Learning how to direct and angle stuff probably is very helpful, but it's like you won't get the chance to do any of that for a while.
I don't want us to put down film school. Some people benefit from it greatly. Same way as business school. Some people benefit greatly, some don't. But my feeling on it is that a lot of the stuff you're going to relearn when you get in the working world, but if you get the basis and you understand it.
I think the hardest part about it is that it's so friggin’ expensive! How does someone getting out of school have that debt and all of a sudden it's like, fuck, I can't even get hired at an entry position job. Your first thing, when you come out and you have your degree in writing or directing, trust me, the first thing you say is not “action”. [It’s going to be] “would you like sugar in that coffee?” And that's the difference.
And it's not good or bad, but you gotta shoot shit when you're a kid and just start to learn your craft that way. So, I am not positive or negative on [film school] at all. I don't want to say it's useless. I personally wouldn't go… but then I'm also a chicken. I got my degree in business because I was terrified that [film school] would never work. Look at me!
But I think everything has a different effect on each person. Some people use film school and it's perfect for them. Some people go and then they wonder why nothing's happening. It's not the school, it's the individual. It's always the individual. Someone's going to succeed. Why not you?
by
nate velasco
